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Stop with the Clemson Should be in Instead of NC State Narrative

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7 months ago

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So apparently Dick Vitale and Jay Bilas think Clemson should have made the NCAA Tournament instead of NC State.

Vitale’s thoughts:

“What do you think the feeling must be at Clemson when they see NC State there, who they beat not once, not twice, but three times?” Vitale said. “And you see the margin of victories.” (Link)

“… I don’t know how you can really justify that. That really troubles me.”

Bilas’ thoughts:

“… I’m sensitive to the whole, ‘We beat NC State!’ three times thing, because that’s fair. I think head-to-head is a big factor.” (Link)

Look, I get it. Clemson beat NC State three times this year. They owned the Wolfpack. In fact, they have won 6 straight. No offense to the Tigers, but in my opinion, that’s unacceptable.

But just because you beat a team three times doesn’t mean you deserve to get in over that team. What you did in the rest of your body of work matters as well.

Clemson also finished 14-6 in the ACC compared to NC State’s 12-8 conference record.

They even had 4 Quad 1 wins, going 4-4 against Quad 1 opponents. NC State was 1-6 against Quad 1 opponents.

So Clemson has the same amount of overall wins as NC State, more conference wins, and more Quad 1 wins.

What about wins against teams that were ranked in the Top-25 when the game was played? NC State has 2 and Clemson has 1.

When it comes down to it, the problem wasn’t Clemson’s wins, it was their losses. The Tigers had 2 Quad 3 losses and 2 Quad 4 losses. They lost to South Carolina, Loyola Chicago, Boston College and Louisville.

Do I think this makes NC State a better team with a better resume than Clemson? No, not necessarily.

In fact, I think that Clemson should be an NCAA Tournament team.

With that being said, just because I believe that Clemson should be in the Dance, doesn’t mean that I think NC State shouldn’t.

Why not make the argument that Clemson should have made it over Arizona State or Pitt, who ranked 66th and 67th in the NET Rankings. Clemson finished 60th in the NET Rankings. For perspective, NC State finished ranked 44th in the NET.

Just because Clemson is deserving to be in the Dance, doesn’t mean that NC State isn’t deserving.

They both are.

Don’t discount NC State simply because Clemson was snubbed.

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Matthew is Co-Owner of Pack Insider. He writes for all sports, with a focus on football and recruiting, and is in charge of business strategy. He is an NC State alum who majored in business. Matthew is also the lead pastor of The Point Church in Cary, NC.

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Papajohn
Papajohn
6 months ago

Giglio got it right. He said, “Clemson is mad at the wrong Wolfpack. Nevada’s Wolf Pack got into the play-in games because the committee always saves one of those four spots for a non P5 team.”
However, I do agree Clemson was tournament worthy. And if we went into the ACCT thinking “it’s us or them” for a spot and then beat that team as badly as they beat us, we’d be out of our minds just like they are. The fallacy was, it wasn’t ‘us or them.’

2
Dof87
Dof87
6 months ago

On another topic, did anyone see GT’s new coach press conference. I’ve seen low key coaches before, but Stoudamire sounded like he just woke up from a coma. Not very confidence inspiring. But you never know.

1
Papajohn
Papajohn
6 months ago
Reply to  Dof87

To me, that’s an odd hire, especially compared to who he replaces.
Pastner had a great track record, he was the CUSA COY one year, won their tournament a couple of times, and won the league a couple of times. He was a hot property in the college coaching world. Stoudamire only has 5 years experience as HC, and only had one winning season. A career losing record both in the WCC league and overall.
It’s a weird coincidence that both Pastner and Stoudamire played at Arizona.

1
Rev
Rev
6 months ago

The NET is seriously flawed. My best example…. If you beat a team, no matter if they are ranked higher or lower than you, the loss hurts the other team’s NET and can result in hurting your own NET ranking. I personally think the Duke and UNC not living up to expectations hurts the reputation of the entire ACC unfairly. And like it or not, there really is not enough OOC play in the mega conferences to justify comparing the power 5 teams..agreeing with Dof87.

2
Rev
Rev
6 months ago

On a totally different note, Shakeel Moore missed a wide open 3 that would have beat Pitt. Pitt even missed a gimme tip of the missed shot. Heartbreaker. Prolly lots more (no pun) drama to come. PS Clemson can pound sand.

2
Dof87
Dof87
6 months ago
Reply to  Rev

I was torn between pulling for Shakeel and wanting Pitt to win and help prove the ACC was slighted in selections.

I hate he had to go out missing that shot, but he was a big reason they were in position to win.

1
Rev
Rev
6 months ago
Reply to  Rev

I hate I can’t edit mistakes. Of course I meant Miss St missed a tip of Moore’s missed three. They were only down one. Crazy game. I think I read there were 21 lead changes. Hope Pitt can win another one. Not as much as I hope the Pack wins Friday!

1
Dof87
Dof87
6 months ago

I agree Clemson should have been in the tournament, along wit NC State. Yes, the argument that it should be either Clemson or NC State flies in the face of the ‘body of work’ and selection criteria they claim to use. Tell Dicky there are other teams in the field below NC State. Clemson would need to displace those teams before they would displace us. Like you said, Did Arizona State really deserve to be in over Clemson? THAT is the question they should be asking first. I think its clear that State deserved to be in over Arizona State.… Read more »

Last edited 6 months ago by Dof87
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NC State Basketball

NC State to Honor David Thompson with Statue Outside Reynolds Coliseum

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1 day ago

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September 25, 2023

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RALEIGH – NC State University will pay tribute to three-time All-American David Thompson with a statue sculpted in his honor that will be placed outside of Reynolds Coliseum.

The unveiling will take place at 11:30 a.m. on Wednesday, Dec. 6, the day of the Wolfpack men’s basketball team’s annual Heritage Game at Reynolds Coliseum, and will be open to the public.

“This is such a deserved honor for the greatest basketball player to ever wear an NC State jersey,” NC State Director of Athletics Boo Corrigan said. “He is one of the most iconic players to ever play in the ACC and our hope is that this statue will ensure that generations of NC State students and fans will always remember the legacy and contributions of David Thompson.”

Thompson is widely recognized as one of the greatest players in college basketball history. A 2008 ESPN story ranked him as one of the ten best college basketball players of all-time, and he is regarded as one of greatest athletes in Atlantic Coast Conference history.

The Boiling Spring, N.C., native played three seasons at NC State from 1972-75 and was a unanimous first-team All-American at the conclusion of all three seasons. He was also named the ACC Player of the Year all three seasons.

He was named the Associated Press National Player of the Year in 1974 and 1975 and remains one of just five players in college basketball history to win multiple AP National Player of the Year honors.

Thompson immediately made his mark on the Pack, helping lead NC State to an undefeated season (27-0) in 1973. The Pack dominated the 1972-73 season and was at the top or near the top of the polls all season as Thompson averaged 24.7 points and 8.1 rebounds per game.

Thompson returned in the 1973-74 season and led the Wolfpack to a 30-1 record and the school’s first NCAA Men’s Division I Basketball National Title.

In the Final Four, Thompson and the Wolfpack met up with UCLA, the seven-time reigning National Champions and the only team to have defeated NC State that season. The Pack trailed 74-67 in the second overtime when Thompson’s heroics helped lead NC State back. Thompson pulled down a defensive rebound and made the go-ahead basket with under one minute remaining and then made two free throws with 38 seconds to go to give the Pack a 78-75 double overtime win in a game that is still considered one of the greatest Final Four games ever played.

Thompson finished the game with 28 points and 10 rebounds in the win over Bill Walton and the Bruins.
Two nights later, the Pack won the National Title over Marquette, 76-64, behind 21 points from Thompson. Thompson was named the Most Outstanding Player of the tournament.

To make it into the NCAA Tournament, the Pack defeated fourth-ranked Maryland, 103-100, in overtime in the 1974 ACC Championship, in a game that is routinely considered one of the best games in college basketball history.

As a senior, Thompson averaged 29.9 points, still the highest single season average in NC State history. He scored an NC State and ACC record 57 points in an early season win over Buffalo State. The Pack started the season ranked No. 1 in the nation and never fell out of the top-10, but lost in the ACC Championship game to end its season. The Pack finished the season ranked seventh in the nation but because the NCAA Tournament at that time only allowed the conference champion into the tournament its season was over.

Thompson closed his career with 2,309 points in 86 career games. He led the ACC in scoring all three seasons and was NC State and the ACC’s career scoring leader when he graduated.

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NC State Basketball

Former NC State Basketball Player Torin Dorn Joins Coaching Staff of G-League SLC Stars

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2 days ago

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September 24, 2023

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Former NC State basketball player Torin Dorn has joined the staff of the Salt Lake City Stars, the G-League team for the Utah Jazz. Dorn’s title is Player Development Associate/Assistant Coach.

After playing 3 seasons at NC State, Dorn went on to play professionally overseas in Poland and Czech Republic, before joining the Wolfpack coaching staff last season as a Graduate Manager.

Dorn will be working under newly appointed head coach Steve Wojciechowski (former Duke PG), who was the head coach at Marquette the past 7 seasons.

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NC State Basketball

NC State Guard MJ Rice Will Be Returning Soon After Stepping Away for a Period of Time

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6 days ago

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September 20, 2023

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NC State Guard MJ Rice (6’5″/215) announced yesterday that due to personal reasons, he had to step away from the basketball program, but was excited to be back with his teammates soon. He was clear that his commitment to NC State hasn’t wavered.

(Tweet)

Life is much bigger than sports. These young men are human beings first and foremost, and as we all know, this life is never simple and easy.

Rice transferred to NC State this offseason from Kansas with three years of eligibility remaining. The former High School McDonald’s All-American didn’t get a lot of playing time in his Freshman season at Kansas, averaging 7.6 minutes per game in only 23 games played.

Coming out of Prolific Prep in California, Rice averaged 20.1 points and 5.3 rebounds per game as a Senior. Rivals ranked him as a 5-star prospect, ON3 ranked him 24th nationally, and ESPN ranked him as the #1 player in the state of North Carolina.

Whatever Rice is working through, we value him as a person more than we do a player.

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NC State Basketball

NC State Announces Hiring of Larry Dixon as NC State Assistant Men’s Basketball Coach

Published

1 month ago

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August 24, 2023

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RALEIGH – NC State men’s basketball head coach Kevin Keatts announced Wednesday that Larry Dixon has joined his staff as an assistant coach.

Dixon comes to NC State after spending the last five seasons as an assistant coach at South Florida.

The NCAA Division I Board of Directors voted in January to allow two more assistant coaches on men’s basketball staffs. Dixon, will serve as one of the Pack’s two new assistant coaches that can engage in coaching activities but may not recruit off campus.

“I think Larry is a great addition to our staff,” Keatts said. “He’s a North Carolina native that has dedicated himself to a coaching career since graduating from college. He started at the high school level in North Carolina and eventually moved up to college and now has been a Division I assistant coach for almost 20 years. I think his experience is going to be a great asset for me and our coaching staff, as well as the young men in our program as we develop them on and off the court.”

Larry Dixon joined the USF coaching staff as assistant coach on May 12, 2018.

In just his second season with the team in 2018-19, Dixon helped USF to the top win turnaround in the NCAA during the 2018-19 season, as the Bulls won 14 more games than the previous season. In addition, USF turned in a 24-14 overall record to set a new single-season school record for wins. The Bulls would go on to win the College Basketball Invitational (CBI) championship and claim the program’s first postseason title since 1990.

Dixon also played an instrumental role in the development of 2019 American Athletic Conference Defensive Player of the Year Laquincy Rideau and 2019 American Athletic Conference Freshman of the Year Alexis Yetna.

Dixon helped USF become one of the top defensive teams in the NCAA during the 2019-20 season, finishing the year ranked 20th in scoring defense by allowing only 62.7 points per game. The Bulls limited eight teams to fewer than 60 points during the season and held 27 of their 31 opponents under their scoring average at the time of play. The Bulls also ranked 44th in the nation in turnovers forced with 15.6 per game, and stood 65th in the NCAA in steals with 7.5 thefts per game.

In 2021-22, Dixon helped develop Russel Tchewa and Corey Walker Jr. into one of the best frontcourt tandems in the league. The Bulls were again among the top defensive teams in the country, ranking 45th in the NCAA in scoring defense (64.9 ppg).

Dixon came to Tampa after five seasons as an assistant at Georgia Southern under head coach Mark Byington. Prior to his stint with the Eagles, Dixon had collegiate assistant coaching jobs at Winthrop (2007-12), East Carolina (2005-07), South Carolina State (2003-05) and St. Andrews College (2002-03).

In his final season at Georgia Southern, Dixon helped lead the Eagles to a 21-12 record, including an 11-7 mark in the Sun Belt. In 2016-17, he helped Georgia Southern reach the postseason for the first time since 2006, playing in the College Basketball Invitational.

Prior to arriving at Georgia Southern, Dixon spent the 2012-13 season as head coach at York Comprehensive High School in York, S.C.

During his five seasons (2007-12) on the coaching staff at Winthrop under head coach Randy Peele, Dixon was recognized as the top assistant coach in the Big South by Fox Sports.

Before entering the college game, Dixon served as the head coach at Garinger High School in Charlotte, N.C. for three seasons. In 2001, he led Garinger to a North Carolina High School sectional championship and earned Mecklenburg County Coach of the Year honors from the Charlotte Observer. Dixon also spent one season as an assistant at Carver High School in Winston-Salem, N.C. and one season at South Rowan High School in his hometown of Salisbury, N.C.

Dixon graduated from Johnson C. Smith University (Charlotte, N.C) in 1996, where he was a four-year letterman as a player. He was named the team’s most improved player following his junior season and the top defensive player after his senior season. He helped the Golden Bulls to a pair of CIAA Southern Division titles and a championship game appearance as a sophomore.

A native of Salisbury, N.C., Dixon has two children, Devin and Leah.

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