NC State Basketball
Looking Back
Predicted to finish 10th in the ACC at the beginning of the season by many media outlets the NC State Basketball program exceeded expectations due to guys improving throughout the season. While it was a safe bet to say this group would not amount to much as they seemed to be inexperienced and had lost the ACC POY in TJ Warren this group wasn’t satisfied with being mediocre. Now before we go too far there were many times that this team was less than mediocre if we step back and look at the season as a whole you have to be pleased with the progress.
There were plenty of ups as this group found a way to beat the blue bloods and personally I believe it is a good season anytime you beat both Duke and Carolina. I am also happy with the way our guys continued to battle and believe that they could make the NCAA Tournament even when our season was on life support following bad losses. This group is special in the way they handled adversity and were able to regain the confidence to win the next game. Look at the 3 game stretch in February where State lost at Wake Forrest and then lost at home to UVA. At this point the season seemed to be over; however, our guys came up with a great result at Louisville that injected life into this squad. From that point on NC State finished the season 8-3!
When November rolled around this season many State fans didn’t know what to expect. We had all heard rave reviews about this transfer from Alabama named Trevor Lacey but we all know that sometimes those reviews can be overly optimistic. Lacey proved to be as good as advertised as he was capable of filling the scoring void left by TJ Warren. Many questioned the choice to roll with Barber instead of Tyler Lewis and let’s be honest, for a good portion of the season those naysayers had good ammunition to question the decision as Barber looked lost. Then the light bulb went off for Cat and he became the player that we had all hoped he would be. Some kids take longer to develop and adjust to the college game, it is a big leap going from High School to the ACC.
Not only did our guards take giant leaps throughout the season but so did our big men. Early in the season we had absolutely no inside presence. Then Gottfried realized mid-way through the season that it is best to use all of our big men in different spots. Lennard Freeman and BeeJay Anya are two big men who are raw offensively but above average defensively. We saw these two pair together in stretches when defense and rebounding were most needed. Then Abu and Washington were much more equipped on the offensive end. These two rarely played together as Gottfried usually liked to play Abu and Freeman together and vice versa Anya and Washington as a pair. I am excited for this group moving forward as I feel like they can all get a lot better in the offseason and be an even more complete group.
As we remember this season I think the biggest question mark we have moving forward is what kind of impact will this season have on the future of NC State Basketball? My junior year we were in a similar position as this team is, we had just lost to Kansas in the Sweet Sixteen and had many of the same players returning. To add to the excitement State had an incoming trio of highly sought after recruits named TJ Warren, Rodney Purvis, and Tyler Lewis. It seemed like everything was set up for the Pack to be the class of the ACC; however, it is well documented how we under achieved that season.
Why?
It is difficult trying to integrate three incoming freshmen into a team full of upper classmen, especially when all three were used to dominating the ball in high school. The chemistry was never at the level it needed to be for our group to achieve something special. That’s why I am not as concerned with Gottfried not having any recruits for 2015. If everyone comes back and with the addition of Terry Henderson then we really don’t have a need for any new recruits. We all know Gottfried can recruit! The biggest thing moving forward is that this group improves individually this offseason. If our players can all improve then there is no reason why this group cannot be a top 25 team next season!
packman70 What’s your theory about recruiting now, genius? You wouldn’t last 5 minutes in a position of importance. Where is all the excitement and pride now or is this too obtuse for your understanding?
Didn’t Sheldon Mitchell play ball with the twins at Oak Hill Academy?
packman70 Wolfer96 So your measurement of success is solely based on the NCAA tournament? You understand that the NCAA tournament is a single elimination tournament right? You understand why the NBA plays a 7 game series right? Because when you take 68 of the best teams in the country and pair them up on any given night any team potentially can beat the other. See that’s why I look at how a team plays the entire season. How well do they defend, how well do they box out and rebound, how well do they move the ball, etc. Because when you… Read more »
Wolfer96 packman70 Are you seriously making an argument that UVA is so much better? Yes, they have been much better in the ACC. In the the postseason they have gone out 2nd round (2012), NIT(13), s16(14), 3rd round this year. Not very impressive, really. By your standards, Bennett should be fired. Gottfried’s postseason record is far superior. Coach K’s first 4 years: 17-13, 11-7 ACC, NIT 10-17, 4-10 ACC, – 11-17, 3-11 ACC, – 24-10, 7-7 ACC, 2nd round. Fired? Miami, Larranaga, 1st 4 years in ACC 20-13, 9-7, NIT 29-7, 15-3, s16 17-16, 7-11, – 25-13, 10-8, NIT Fired?… Read more »
wolfpack74 Wolfer96 packman70 I agree with you @wolfpack74, if we had kept TJ another season, kept Purvis and Lewis another season then who knows. Most likely we would have been better. But attrition is part of the game too. We’re certainly not the only team to deal with that on an annual basis. Look at the player losses that Louisville had this season. Look at the losses that Dayton had. Still with all the players coming and going the last 4 teams have been the most highly ranked recruiting classes at State of memory in the last 25 years. So it’s not… Read more »
Wolfer96 packman70 At least we have discovered several things about packman70. First, he is also a Elton John’s fan (see the program through rose colored glasses). Second, he is not a long time fan of State, since he does not understand the dynamics of the ACC hierarchy. Third, he did not attend State. The latter is ok, we need as many fans as possible. He just can’t put alumni down because we have a more vested interest in the path the program is headed. I actually gave money to the athletic program until Valvano was fired. To summarize, Packman70 has no… Read more »
packman70 My reading comprehension is fine thanks to my NC State education. You like to make excuses for this team and I interpret that as someone who does not want to hang banners. I don’t like excuses. The people who supported Sendek all those years also loved to make excuses. I just accepted the fact that Sendek hit his ceiling and it didn’t take me 10 season to realize that. Calipari got outcoached by Bo Ryan and there is no excuse for losing with that roster. What is the “right path” anyhow? My “right path” is a coach and program… Read more »
Did you fail reading comp? I didn’t read hardly any if your past 2 posts, but enough to try and help you understand that of course we all ant to hang NC banners. Why would you think I don’t want that? What I’ve said time and time again is I think Gott is on the right path. You said after 3 seasons your mind was pretty much made up that his ceiling had been reached. After taking over a dumpster fire of a program, getting 4 star recruits, going to the tourney every year including a sweet 16, you decided,… Read more »
Wolfer96 packman70 Wolfer96 give’m hell. Long live the lunatic fringe.
packman70 And let’s be absolutely clear here… it’s the lunatic fringe that went against the media and idiot fans who said that we could never expect more than what Herb Sendek was producing. It’s the lunatic fringe that gave you the 2 sweet 16’s in the last 4 seasons that you love to go on about. And it’s the lunatic fringe that will bring this once proud program more banners. Because the Lunatic Fringe will always demand the best from a program that has been to the mountain top. Following in your usual line of response, go to another blog… Read more »
packman70 Wolfer96 Well obviously you are part of the touchy feely generation. I am not. I didn’t grow up in a time when coming in last place gets you a trophy. I didn’t grow up in a time when everyone makes a team regardless of how bad they are. I grew up in a time when people didn’t make excuses and men were men not little boys who needed their egos stroked constantly. And I think you’re mistaken about the timing. I’ve been saying the same stuff all season and for the last 4 seasons. Sorry but blind optimism does not… Read more »
Wolfer96 packman70 We will never agree. We are coming from 2 different places. I am an optimist. I try to be positive in regards to NCST athletics, because when I wasn’t, I was miserable. Even at my worst, however, I could not envision me advocating a coaching change after 2 sweet 16s in 4 years. ” While Gott’s 4 years at State is a huge improvement over his predecessor, if a better coach became available I would not hesitate in requesting the change.” Any sane coach would never take this job if we ran off Gottfried after his success here. I… Read more »
packman70 You seem to be under the impression that being a fan means seeing everything as rainbows and sunshine and heaping praise on all the coaches and players no matter what they do. I’m afraid to tell you that is not the case at all. Go to any other team’s blogs and you will see people with varying opinions on players and coaches. When Daugherty was coach at unc he won ACC coach of the year followed by calls for his head soon after. So according to your definition of fandom unc has no fans and they should all root… Read more »
Not cherry picking at all.. Looking only at stats doesn’t necessarily tell the whole story. I was pointing out how much Cat improved during the second half. One bad game does not mean he didn’t improve. I watched all the games, I saw what I saw.
If you think he needs to pick up another assist or two per game or per 40, fine. That’s a simple point. A point that didn’t require a laundry list of Cat and Coach’s perceived shortcomings days after our tourney run, IMHO.
packman70 gdtann Wolfer96 wolfpack74 TriangleDreamer When you remove all the bad games players had yes their numbers can look good. That’s why sane people look at the stats based on all the games. 8-10 assists per 40. So you don’t think this is possible? Let me just name 2 NC State PG’s that averaged 8-10 assists per 40. Chris Corchiani – 10.18 assists per 40 his last season Lorenzo Brown – 8.42 assists per 40 his last season Looks a lot like 8-10 assists per 40. So why did I select those 2 PGs to compare to? For one they are both NC State… Read more »
packman70 gdtann Wolfer96 wolfpack74 TriangleDreamer listen genius, Lorenzo Brown whose overall rank coming out of high school was much lower than Barber averaged 7.2 apg in 34 mpg (2012-2013).
So why couldn’t Barber average the same or more per game? On a team next season that will be mostly juniors and seniors it should be even easier to get assists.
wolfpack74 packman70 that @packman70 is hillarious. He questions my per 40 stats while he cherry picks games. I don’t know if he ever went to State but he certainly didn’t pass any statistics classes.
packman70 Your team, what year did you attend State?
Try as I might to stay away, I will always be pulled back to defend my team against the lunatic fringe
packman70 gdtann Wolfer96 wolfpack74 TriangleDreamer Yes Cat did improve but not enough for a five star player. 164th in assists is terrible for a
Division 1 player but some of the blame has to be placed on the inability of the bigs down low. As Wolfer96 has said, we will have to wait and see. Also Packman70 why in the hell are you still on this blog when twice you said you would not reply?
packman70 gdtann Wolfer96 wolfpack74 Once a jerk, always a jerk.
gdtann Wolfer96 wolfpack74 TriangleDreamer sorry gdtann, that most mostly a reply to wolfer96, who skews stats to per 40 instead of pointing out how much better Cat got during the 2nd half of the season.
Some of you guys with the doom and gloom, damn.
I’ve agreed with just about every worg gdtann has said.
gdtann Wolfer96 wolfpack74 TriangleDreamer packman70 As Homer Simpson said, “facts are meaningless, you can use facts to prove anything that’s remotely true.” Going back to the ND OT loss, and excluding one horrible game vs Clemson, Cat had a 7.1-2.8 Asst-TO ratio. Not to shabby. From the last day of January, excluding the Duke game he was knocked out of, he averaged 16.5 ppg. you want him to have 6- 7 assists per game? You’ll be happy if he can do that? If he can average what 16 out of 300 players averaged this year? http://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketball-men/d1/current/individual/140 By the way, no player averaged over 7.7… Read more »
gdtann Wolfer96 wolfpack74 packman70
Thank you, gdtann, for showing me how to say everything I wanted to say, without being a jerk.
Lesson learned.
Just for information since we have been discussing Barber’s play from early in the season to late. In the last 10 ACC games Cat drove to the hoop more so he was going to the FT line more often. Last 10 ACC games on a per 40 basis: PPG: 17.95 APG: 4.81 Turnover per game: 2.70 RPG: 3.75 SPG: 1.52 Shooting %: 42.98% 3 pt %: 42.86% Assist to TO ratio: 1.78 First 10 ACC games on a per 40 basis (Cat did not play in FSU game): PPG: 10.88 APG: 5.15 Turnover per game: 2.94 RPG: 3.09 SPG: 1.03 Shooting… Read more »
Wolfer96 gdtann wolfpack74 TriangleDreamer packman70 I honestly think this is one of those cases where the stats are deceiving. I am a believer in advanced analytics but I also think you have to take the eye test into consideration too. I mean just watching him play the game over the last month he clearly looks better even if it only translated to a marginal increase in his per 40 minute stats. ( which is a good stat to look at ) I would also like to see his per 40 minute stats in his last 14 games too. I imagine that is where you… Read more »
gdtann Wolfer96 wolfpack74 TriangleDreamer packman70 I thought it was clear why I thought it wasn’t an improvement… because he already possessed those skills. If he never possessed the skills from the beginning then it would have been an improvement to add those skills. Now whether Cat can add the passing ability/court vision who knows? I can’t speak to that skillset until he shows it on the court. What I believe is that it’s hard to change who you are. It’s like when Corchiani Sr was PG for State. He was a pass first guy and when he was asked to score more he couldn’t… Read more »
Wolfer96 gdtann wolfpack74 TriangleDreamer packman70 I don’t see how that isn’t an improvement. I mean, there was a point in the season where it was a struggle for him to get 5 ppg. Him starting to play like he normally does was an improvement in and of itself. The thing is with time and experience often comes understanding. With understanding often comes confidence. Now that Barber knows his strengths at this level its easier to work on his weaknesses, seeing the pass before its there, manipulating the defense, facilitating offense and making players around you better. As a Junior I hope to see Barber… Read more »
wolfpack74 Wolfer96 gdtann TriangleDreamer packman70 To my knowledge Trevor does not have any kids and is not married.
Wolfer96 gdtann wolfpack74 TriangleDreamer packman70 Does anyone know if Lacey is married or has kids that might entice him to go overseas and play next year?
gdtann wolfpack74 Wolfer96 TriangleDreamer packman70 Sorry but what are you basing that on? Here again are his stats from the NCAA tournament: 14 of 39 FGs for 36% shooting 8 assists to 6 turnovers (only 8 assists in 3 games) I can see him improving his 3 point shot. His ball handling is already good so probably won’t improve much. I don’t really see his drives to the hoop improving. His defense is already good. In 2 seasons his passing ability has not shown much if any improvement even though this team overall was more talented than last season’s team even with bad hands… Read more »
Wolfer96 wolfpack74 gdtann TriangleDreamer packman70 No Corchiani Jr. is not transferring. The edit comment timer caught my earlier reply to GDTANN. Only Wallace so far.
wolfpack74 gdtann Wolfer96 TriangleDreamer packman70 Is that right? Little Corch is leaving? A sad day in Raleigh.
Howlin’ Yankee Welcome. I don’t agree with some of your points but that’s alright. We were super lucky this season just as we were super unlucky last season. My point is let’s not vote Gottfried prom king based on good luck or disparage him for last season’s bad luck. Gottfried has been the best coach since V hands down. Although as I say that I have to acknowledge the fact that we have had some of the worst coaches imaginable during that period so while Gottfried is definitely an improvement just where he stands in the history of Wolfpack coaching… Read more »
gdtann wolfpack74 Wolfer96 TriangleDreamer packman70 We all hope you are correct about Barber. He needs to be consistent during the Big games as well as the others. He has a big load since Wallace is transferring (ha, ha) and Corchiani Jr. is the last guard on the roster.
gdtann wolfpack74 Wolfer96 TriangleDreamer packman70 We all hope you are right about Barber. He needs to come up big in big games because Wallace is transferring (ha, ha).
First time poster. Refreshing to see a solid discussion of the Pack, other than the name calling session down below. That’s what PackPride is for. Just a couple of thoughts on what I’ve read here. *Some of you are underestimating Lennard Freeman. Couple of times it was said here he has peaked. Pretty sure he came in at 17 years old, and is just now figuring things out. He is ahead of Richard Howell at this same point in his career. There is a reason he took hold of the starting job and never looked back. Just work on them… Read more »
wolfpack74 Wolfer96 TriangleDreamer gdtann packman70 i think next year you’ll see a much more consistent barber
wolfpack74 Wolfer96 TriangleDreamer gdtann packman70 i disagree barber is exactly like lesile. leslie was a head cause he had the game he just choose when he wanted to play hard… barber was still figuring this college game out once he did he started playing more consistent, the effort is there thats not a question with him unlike leslie where sometimes the effort just wouldn’t be there
Wolfer96 gdtann wolfpack74 packman70 stop living in the past, focus on the future
wolfpack74 Wolfer96 TriangleDreamer gdtann packman70 You come off looking negative but I like to believe that’s based on your high expectations of this program. I also happen to be one of those people who believes that this program can and should perform at the highest level. Where I sometimes diverge from you and people like @gdtann is that you guys get hung up on one player. For you it’s Kyle and for @gdtann it’s Cat. To me it has less to do with either of those players and more to do with our coach. I’ve been watching Gottfried for 4 seasons and till this… Read more »
gdtann Wolfer96 wolfpack74 packman70 Well I disagree with your assessment about expectations. Being realistic is a vague and subjective measurement. Our being picked 10th is less about what this team is capable of and more to do with past performance. Because the Wolfpack has performed so poorly in the past they will be ranked based on historical performance. Some schools lose almost their entire lineups each season and yet get ranked in the top 3-5 in the ACC each season. There was a time when this program recruited at the level of players like Archie Miller, Kenny Inge, Justin Gainey, and the… Read more »
Wolfer96 TriangleDreamer gdtann packman70 wolfpack74 You guys are just like me except I don’t hold anything back. It may be labelled cynical except I think the right term is being realistic about the present situation.
GDTANN: You talked about Leslie being great one day and not so good the next. Cat Barber is exac
TriangleDreamer gdtann Wolfer96 packman70 wolfpack74 Very well put. I’m with you… every coach will have their supporters and detractors and I want to measure them only by their results on the court.
As you say, next season will be the true test.
gdtann Wolfer96 packman70 wolfpack74 I’m an oldtimer as well. And I am more excited about the direction of our men’s basketball program than I have been in the last couple decades. Gottfried is far from perfect but he is doing most of the things we need to regain our national prominence. I remember well the 80s and Valvano gaining us our second title Time and circumstance have bestowed an almost saintly glow to the man but I recall plenty of whining during his time here… questioning his recruiting, his in-game decisions, his brash personality. The point I’m making is no coach (or… Read more »
Wolfer96 packman70 I think one thing we have to keep in mind about that 2013 season is the fact that team was lead by CJ Leslie. Who would at teams play like Calvin or CJ as Gott would put it. This is shown by the fact that a guy who had clear NBA talent is not currently in the NBA. So it will be interesting to see what they do next year. Was that 2013 season more on Gottfriend or the fact that he has such poor leadership in his players. The fact that they had such a short bench that… Read more »
Wolfer96 wolfpack74 packman70 Expectations must be based in reality. You can’t just move the goal post at the end of the season because the team exceed the original expectation and then say well they should have done better. Let me put it in perspective for you. Just like no one thought Notre Dame would win the ACC tournament, no one thought this NC State team would be a sweet 16 team before the beginning of the season. Not. A. Single. One. Of. You. So don’t come up here talking about your expectations. The fact that this team was picked 10th isn’t an… Read more »
wolfpack74 packman70 I’d like to add to this point… 8 or 9 seasons ago when we were searching for a new coach everyone including some State fans believed that it would be impossible to recruit against unc and duke year in year out. And maybe that scared away some candidates. Then Sidney Lowe was hired and he showed that we could recruit big time talent. He brought in JJ Hickson, CJ Leslie, Lorenzo Brown, Ryan Harrow. Then Gottfried was hired and he followed that up with TJ Warren, Rodney Purvis, Tyler Lewis and the current roster that averages 4 stars. State… Read more »
packman70 Calm down. If you are happy about the results of this season then there is no reason to get upset. Different people have different expectations for the program. I don’t always agree with @wolfpack74 but he has a right to his opinions. Yes he’s cynical as hell but no need to attack. We come off a sweet 16 run and everyone is patting Gottfried on the back like he re-invented the wheel but the same people were lambasting him only a few weeks ago after going on a losing streak and not being able to win back to back games.… Read more »
packman70 For every point, there is a counter point. Concerning expectations: I can have any expectations that I desire. I expected more. I always expect more. Concerning recruiting: Please don’t tell schools like Kansas, Kentucky, Carolina, and Arizona about stocking up on recruits. Being a new recruit does not necessarily mean you will be placed on the bottom of the stack. If you are a good or great player you won’t be 8th or 9th on the depth chart. That’s the kind of thinking that got us in trouble two years ago when Leslie, Brown, Wood, Howell, and Purvis left… Read more »