Former Pack stars Richard Howell & Damon Thornton debate the NIL era and where NC State fits in

I’m not sure if you guys have been tuning into the Red Locker Room podcast with former NC State stars Damon Thornton and Richard Howell, but it’s our new favorite podcast.

The back-and-forth and the stories from two former NC State stars give you a unique and fun perspective on Wolfpack basketball from guys who lived it.

Before we continue, I know we have some younger fans that follow, so let’s give a quick refresher on who Rich Howell and Damon Thornton are.

Ok, now that we’re on the same page…

Episode 6 of their new podcast dropped last, and it’s a great listen.

The guys give their opinion on how NC State can compete with top majors with its current NIL. Rich tells how Beard Gang was started and that Debbie Yow made him donate the proceeds to the Make-A-Wish Foundation. Meanwhile, Damon Thornton says in some programs “college players were getting paid before NIL.”  and the”NCAA owes them some money, and they are late on the payments.”

This is an interesting topic that we’ve discussed many times here at Pack Pride. How do the former players feel about NIL? Just a few years ago, guys were barred from having a job and playing just for a scholarship. Today, even some bench players are making $1 million per season.

Well, here’s a short back-and-forth on what Rich and Damon have to say about it…

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Jay (host): How can NC State compete? You’ve got power conference teams dropping upwards of 20 million to get top-named, high-skilled players. If NC State stays around 9 to 10 million, and that number keeps rising every year, can they truly compete for a national championship or even the top of the ACC? We’ve got some big hitters in the conference when it comes to NIL.

Damon: I’m gonna keep it all the way a buck with you. NIL has been happening before it was even legal. I’ll put it that way first. There were always teams with alumni who had bags and were doing what they had to do to get players. So let’s not act like this is brand new.

NC State is probably going to be accustomed to getting those second- or third-tier guys and making the most out of them. Obviously it handicaps you a little bit because you can’t go out and spend like Duke or Carolina. They are always going to get the top talent. But is that anything new? Duke always had great recruiting classes. Carolina always got those players. Kentucky, Kansas, they normally got the elite guys.

So the format has changed a little bit. If anything, it’s given some other schools a real opportunity. If they can come up with the money and sign the right players, who knows, they can have a successful season.

But at the end of the day, just because you paid the most on paper doesn’t guarantee success. It’s kind of f’ing the game up, if you ask me. You don’t know what the expectations are for certain players and certain teams. It’s making it hard for coaches. You’re basically getting a brand new roster every year. Their tenures are getting shorter and shorter.

I’m all for players making money. I’m always a player’s advocate. But there has to be a thin line. Maybe NIL should be what it was originally designed to be: name, image, and likeness. You sell your jerseys in the arena, do commercials, put your face on stuff. That’s how you make your money. I don’t understand how these evaluations come up with the numbers they do, but I’ll let y’all respond. That’s my take on NIL for now.

Jay: Rich, do you think NC State can compete with that middle of the pack amount of money to spend on players?

Rich: Yes, I do think we can compete, man. You made a great point. It definitely leveled the playing field. You can get the bread to build a roster. But more than ever, coaching plays a huge part in this. You can spend all this money and it still doesn’t pan out.

We spent a lot last year. Some players got a lot of money, and I don’t think we had one first team All ACC player. I know we had some guys getting way too much money for the effort and results we saw.

Damon: I was at the games. There were times I wanted to pull some of them aside and say, “Let me put that jersey on. I’ll give you what you’re getting for a quarter of the price.”

We were out there busting our a**, blood, sweat, and tears, happy to just have a scholarship. I wasn’t one of the guys getting paid under the table. I came in late to the game. When it came to recruiting, I followed the rules. They had us scared to death. I was blessed just to get an NC State scholarship and have my college paid for while playing basketball.

Man, I was happy to get a Pell Grant.

Jay: Y’all would get in trouble for a sandwich!

Rich: For a sandwich, yeah.

Damon: For a Hooters meal. They had to call us back and tell us to go pay for it. Shout out to Hooters on Wake Forest Avenue. That was my spot.

Rich: I remember starting Beer Gang. Me and Worm were sitting on Vanderbilt off Hillsborough Street trying to figure out how to put some money in our pockets. We were tired of eating at the dining halls. So we came up with the idea to put Beer Gang on shirts, red and black, and started selling them.

We didn’t think it was gonna blow up, but it did. People were showing up to games in Beer Gang shirts. Then I got the text message of doom from Debbie Yow. Had to go to her office. Long story short, we had to shut it down because it was impermissible benefits. We had to donate close to $3,000 to Make A Wish.

Damon: You had to donate it?

Rich: Yeah. In the end, it went to a good cause because I used some of that money to support my sister who had died in a car accident, but at the end of the day, we just needed some money for food.

Now you see kids making 500k, 600k, 800k, millions, and a few years ago a Bojangles sandwich was illegal.

Damon: I did a basketball camp a couple years ago. Called Levi (Watkins) and said I wanted to come down with my son. I wanted to get him around the game. I’m asking, “Where the players at?” Back in our day, camp was a way for the players to make a little money. Now Levi said they can’t even pay the guys enough because of NIL. That little 800 to 1000 dollars we used to get for a week is nothing to them now.

I remember leaving Case with a to-go box; I would eat, make a to-go box for later. Put it in the refrigerator. And if you’re lucky enough and you have some bread, and you have a friend with a car, you go to Taco Bell or Wendy’s. Anywhere for a value menu.

Now you walk into Capital Grille (steakhouse)… DJ Burns in here. What?

I remember leaving the game one night and seeing Allen Breed pulling off in a 600,000 dollar car.

Jay: You can’t hate on somebody for making money, but…Do you guys as players think that’s also a bad thing because it creates distractions?

You’re a 19, 20, 21 year old with a bunch of money. You go to practice thinking about jumping in your new car, going shopping, taking girls out, instead of focusing on the game.

Obviously you’ll have those special, driven guys who stay in the gym. But does it create a distraction for the average player who’s now getting 500k to 700k a year?

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We’ll stop there.  We just wanted to give you a little taste, but if you want to hear the rest of the episode, watch it above. And make sure you go subscribe and follow!